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Boredom at work has compelled me to contemplate my next guitar...who am I kidding it has nothing to do with boredom...anyway, I am debating with myself about whether or not to install a truss rod. Yes, I am planning a steel string. But, if I add three or four CF rods top the neck, is the truss rod really necessary?JBreault38911.6903819444

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

No it's not necessary, but it is convenient. Carbon rods are not necessary either. There are a lot of old guitars with good necks and no reinforcement, but there are also a lot of old guitars with unplayable necks. I would recommend that if you do, build it with a bolt on neck. If it works out great, if it doesn't, the neck will be easier to replace, and all will not be lost.

Al

Hey Joe, what does the weather have to do with not installing truss rods?



Ok, seriously...you still need adjustablity in the neck to deal with a certain amount of movement that will happen eventually. The CF won't stop it entirely, but will certainly slow it down, which is good.

But you'll want to install it all on a nice day.

I'll shut up now.....
Don Williams38911.6819328704

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Even though it's Don, I'll still agree with him.
I would do away with the CF and use a truss rod for sure. You'll want it for it's adjustability rather than its strength.

This is a timely thread. There was a big discussion over at the Acoustic Guitar Magazine forum where Montouro guitars was asking the same thing. He is a repair guy in Chicago who has probably worked on more Larson, Euphonon, Maurer, and Prairie State guitars in the country. His finding was that the guitar sounds better without a truss rod, and routing a channel in wood seems counter productive. Since you are removing wood to install the truss rod, you are making the neck less stable. I actually talked to him on the phone about this in length. But I would still put a truss rod in for myself because any slight adjustment is easy to do with a truss rod. His point was that if you have highly seasoned wood, it shouldn't move with a CF Rod or Ebony strip installed.

I just think from a consumer stand point, they would rather pay a repair guy $10 to adjust the truss rod rather than an expensive repair to fix a bowed neck. I'll always use a truss rod because I don't think the difference in tone is all that much better without the rod, and it is insurance against a costly repair.
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

[QUOTE=LuthierSupplier] He is a repair guy in Chicago who has probably worked on more Larson, Euphonon, Maurer, and Prairie State guitars in the country. His finding was that the guitar sounds better without a truss rod, and routing a channel in wood seems counter productive. Since you are removing wood to install the truss rod, you are making the neck less stable.[/QUOTE]


Hmm . . . does a guitar without a truss rod sound better, or do the few really old guitars that have survived from a huge population that didn't sound really good. The OLF scientists may like to comment on the statistical sampling

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

I can see it possibly not moving over time with CF, definitely wouldnt trust ebony - but its wood - and its under a bunch of tension/compression - the wood is going to relax over time and move - then what do you do - go with the truss rod - a tone of great guitar have been built with one in them. I think there are more important things contributing to tone than taking out a truss rod adn then having to potentially trash a neck down the road. My 2 cents.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I'd play it safe and use both. I didn't on my first two, but from now on, it's the truss rod down the middle bordered by two CF rods on the side. For 40-50$ bucks more, I find it's well worth the investment.

If it's good enough for the top pro's, it's more that good enough for me

But I imagine that having the CF there demands more pressure on the truss rod to do it's job... hmmm...

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

I'll ask the question...

Why would you NOT want to put one in?

There's more work installing three CF rods, than one adjustable truss rod.

There is also more cost to install three CF rods, than one adjustable truss rod.

Just asking.Rod True38911.9463425926

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

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Joe--just forget the neck.
Laminate a bunch of CF rods together, with one truss rod sandwiched in between. Slap a fretboard on top, and there ya go.


Hoo boy.



SK

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

How about just carving a neck out of a big chunk of CF, glue on a fingerboard and Voi- La. Ok,I'll go soak my head now    

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

Dave, you got it! I'll make myselfa new jig that will help me carve CF!

Ok, i'll go eat a bucket o' sawdust! Serge Poirier38912.0100462963

[quote=SK]Joe--just forget the neck.
Laminate a bunch of CF rods together, with one truss rod sandwiched in between. Slap a fretboard on top, and there ya go. [/quote]

    Screw that!!!! Just laminate a bunch of truss rods together and glue a fret board to it(or slap it)! Saves a whole lot of trouble!

Woo Momma, Baby, Uhn-Huhn!   

Silly Billy Dean!

I'll go soak my head in sawdust now!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

I just built a guitar with no truss rod and I am about to do it again. It is my stella copy. I put in two cf rods and it is a fairly fat neck and only 12 frets long on the short scale so I wasn't too worried. I did it because I wanted the neck to feel very light and I am really satisfied with the results. I probably wouldn't do it on a modern style thin neck or a 14 fretter but in this case I think it's great and the guitar is so light and fun to play.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

All the great golden era Martins have no truss rod, which they only introduced in 1985 I believe (and who buys a post '69 Martin?). I've got four Martins, 2 from the pre-1934 era which have an ebony insert under the fingerboard and two with the steel T-bar, one pre-war, one 1963. 2 of those have had neck resets the other two haven't and they all still have great straight necks. Oh and they all sound pretty good as well, but that is probably down to the old Adi tops rather than the lack of a truss rod.

Do I put truss rods in my guitars? Oh yes and CF rods. We may not NEED seat belts in our cars, but it's reassuring to have them there just in case.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Thanks for the replies all.

Ok, the reason I was thinking no truss rod is that I wanted to try a butt joint with the neck, no mortice. And, I'm not a fan of truss rod covers on the headstock. Just a style thing.

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

[QUOTE=JBreault] Thanks for the replies all.

Ok, the reason I was thinking no truss rod is that I wanted to try a butt joint
with the neck, no mortice. And, I'm not a fan of truss rod covers on the
headstock. Just a style thing.
[/QUOTE]

You could still run a truss through the body without a mortise and tenon..
just drill a hole for the truss rod.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Oh dear, not that AG Luthier's Corner thread. Honestly, I'm with Rick Turner's stance all the way, in that the case for the lack of adjustable truss rods being the reason those old guitars sound great, as presented there, is about as solid as a soap bubble. Experience and opinion don't mean much to me unless the case can be argued soundly.

Are there lots of great, stable guitars out there without adjustable rods? Sure. Are there lots of non-adjustable necked guitars that had to undergo major surgery or just ended up on the scrapheap because they became unplayable and repairing them wasn't worth the trouble? Yes.

I use CF (a pair, evens out the stiffness, I like what it does to the necks, and they sound good to me) and a dual action truss rod, because I like to have the option of dialling in a little more or a little less relief if time/the weather/the humidity/player preferences dictate. Like Colin said, they may not be necessary, but it sure is nice to have them around...

Joe,
I just did a butt joint on my last bouzouki with a truss rod, and it worked beautifully, just as John just mentioned.
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com